Lousy moved out in November after 22 years of marriage. Our only child was off to college and I had had enough. Now, I have slowly come to the realization that I was married to a sociopath.  

He led secret life for the past 18 months, life as I knew it has turned upside-down.  Most of this came to the surface, due to his lack of full-time employment, self-esteem went out the window and everything was my fault.  Any-hoo, I have not taken any legal action, because Lousy does not have a job.  He has had a few in the past making-six figures, (he has a Masters Degree) but he usually sabatoges it.  He does "consulting" in the meantime.  And he survives by manipulation and charm and has moved on to his next female victim.

Meanwhile, I'm working to provide for my son & myself and barely getting by. I would like to move on and file for divorce, but my concern is that without him having a "real" job, do I stand a chance of getting any child support.? The jurisdiction where I live requires support for my child until age 21, he just turned 19. Will the court consider Lousy's  earning potential? Could he ask for spousal support? OMG!!!    - Very Angry

Dear Very Angry:

I'd be pissed too. First, you have to get a good lawyer. The short answer about child support is "yes". It will depend on the local laws, but your lawyer can show income potential, or imputed income, as a basis. There are formulas for determining the amount of support based not only on his current income, but your expenses and income as well. Many Lousys will quit their jobs when the divorce process kicks into gear and try to just shrug and say "sorry, I don't have a job... can't pay". That does not fly.

This is the time to get busy getting organized. Use our worksheets to figure out exactly where you are financially before you go to see a lawyer. You also need to account for all the marital assets. Even if it's just a couple of cars and a slim margin of equity, it all adds up to something. Also get a handle on the debts... you can make him take responsibility for crazy debts that he created, but you have to know what they are and where they are. Including that liablility in your divorce settlement may not clear your name, but if he tries to screw around and not take care of it you can haul him back to court for contempt.

As for the spousal support... don't know about that one. If you can show proof of adultery, then - no way. If he's just a screw up who has relied on you for years for support, then you may be in for it. If he does have a basis for spousal support, then that may reduce your child support potential. I suggest you become the encouraging and supportive spouse that boosts his ego into another good paying position before you hit him with the big D. (Yeah, that's bitchy, but it's all about self-preservation).

Bottom line is: nobody will come out unscathed. Wherever you are in your current lifestyle, expect a downgrade for everyone. Don't start the process until you get your ducks in a row... seeing a lawyer before you are prepared is a waste of money. See this site for other tips, like what to look for in a lawyer, etc.

Good luck!!!                   - Jane

I am Catholic - born, raised, and married. My Lousy committed adultery and abandoned me and the children. Our divorce is complete, and I have initiated the process to get an annullment. The way I understand it, I have to have this to get remarried in the Catholic church. I don't have my next Mr. Right picked out or anything, but the idea of tidying up this disaster of a transaction is appealing to me. I am picking up the rest of the pieces, why not this one while I am at it?

My question is this....is this a good time to explore other religions? I am just a bit turned off by the formality, the finger pointing, the detailed questions that the "Tribunal" has asked me, my friends, my shrink. They are so deep in my business, almost implying that I caused Lousy's adultery. Hellloooo?? I was not the one with my pants unzipped!

I don't want to make a hasty decision, and turn my back on the religion that I was raised with, but this is a bit ridiculous. I mean it is harder to get the annullment than it was to get married. AND Lousy professed to be Catholic too (he was born and raised as well.) So it was not really a stamp of approval or shared values as I had been led to believe.
I feel really welcome, warm and at home at another church right now. They have welcomed me and my family with open arms, so giving, loving and supportive. It feels really positive.
What is your take on all of this?
                                           -  Catholic Lousy Spouse Survivor

Dear Catholic:

I'm not Catholic, but I have known others who have gone through this as well. To really share my true opinions with you, I'm going to have to share my view on religion in general. At the risk of offending some readers I feel that if I'm going to share, I have to be honest.

So here's my take: Religion in general is a good thing. Religions create communities, and those communities support the greater communities as well as their members. All good things. Religious practices establish rules of conduct, a base line for acceptable behavior in those communities. Religion is general was the only form of governing for eons, whatever form it was in.

All flavors of religion vary in some degree, but all set down the basics - don't kill each other, don't steal from each other, and some require that you respect our rules or suffer consequences. The bottom line for all address our primal needs: self-preservation and promotion of the species.

Regardless of your religion, it is up to you to establish your relationship with your deity - whomever or whatever that is. You should base your decision on how the rules relate to you and your life, and how comfortable you are in that community. Your children will either be encouraged or discouraged by their ability to relate to the rules of whatever religion you expose them to. Raising them in the environment that is true to you and your beliefs is a gift, so choose wisely.

There are no wrongs or rights, just what fits you. I wish you luck in your exploring.     - Jane

I just heard that in certain states you can go after  the lousy spouse's mistress for alientation of affection - (yes, plural) I realize that this is most likely an act of revenge - but can you tell me when this would be a worthwhile lawsuit? I have 1 specific homewreckers, name, place of work, hotel charges and dates in my possession.  

I think its time for wives to stand up to other women who do this sort of thing knowing fully that lousy is married with children.       - Painful

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Dear Pained -

There are a lot of different circumstances that come into play when you engage in a lawsuit. The first thing you need to find out is what your local laws are. Figure out what you can gain, then determine whether a second lawsuit against another party is worth the trouble.

There are a couple of threads running in our Forum about similar situations. I recommend that you start interviewing lawyers in your area. There are tips on this website to do that. Calling lawyers on the phone is a good way to piece together some basics without paying anything. Lawyers that advertise and those with small practices are more likely to give you some basic answers on the phone. If you have to make an appointment, don't do that until you've done some research. You don't want to pay a lawyer $300 for a consultation until you know that you've found your lawyer.

I agree that we need to stand up for ourselves, but we are governed by the courts. Make sure you are prepared not only with evidence, but all of the additional backup info that you'll need to have in hand to pursue a divorce. My opinion is that it's best not to let Lousy know how much dirt you have until you get to mediation. At that point you show your cards and lay down what you want and need to continue to take care of the family financially. Once Lousy and his lawyer see what you have on him, he'll be wise to mediate rather than be humiliated in a courtroom. Make sure you find a lawyer that respects your position, can negotiate for you and enjoys trials - your lawyer may have to be aggressive eventually.

Even the meekest of us want a certain amount of revenge when wronged. If there is a divorce trial, don't worry, the homewrecker will be dragged through the mud with Lousy. Is she really responsible for his lousy-ness? or is he just a shit, and she's what he stuck to? A separate case is a separate expense... and unless you can really get something out of it, I'd suggest you skip it.

Good luck!                                              - Jane

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Dear Steamrolled...

You have a great attitude, don't let Lousy ruin that. It sounds like your Ex-Lousy was not taught the golden rule. You are going to have to work extra hard to overshadow his snottiness.  I know the kind of guy you are talking about... the one who is entitled, who when given an inch will snatch a mile, and who when challenged by you will always be quick to blame you and deny any responsibility. Thank goodness he is an ex, but with a small child, you know this person is going to be in your life for many years to come.

Although your intentions are good, you assume way too much in expecting him to reciprocate. I've observed that the non-custodial parent is often irrationally protective of their time with the child. This can be the same parent who is calling to set up play dates on every one of their visitation days. It's a power thing. Somehow being cooperative makes the irrational Lousy equate that with abdication of power. please…

If you have the chance in the future to alter your parenting plan, really look at it carefully and see what changes can be made that keeps it equitable, but more balanced to meet the children's needs. Too often the holidays are just alternated between parents. You should both consider what is really in the best interest of the child, and never assume that reason or maturity will have any influence on future events.

For example: in negotiating my parenting plan, I had to insist that if we are alternating the child's birthday, then the non-custodial parent be given the option of a two-hour visit with the child on that day. I hope that my Ex would want that time, and I knew better than to expect him to allow it for me if it wasn't written in the plan. Of course, because it was my suggestion I had to twist his arm to agree… 

Young children want to be in their home or familiar surroundings, older kids want to be with their friends. Subjecting kids to more than one formal gathering is torture to them. Make the holidays special in your home - put up goofy decorations that will make them happy, create traditions that are yours alone and are not dependent on the exact date. Focus on letting them have fun and creating happy memories rather than making mandatory appearances and following protocols.  

As for the tardiness issue… maybe a greeting by law enforcement will be necessary. If your Ex-Lousy has any respect for authority, despite his lack of respect for you, it may be the perfect wake-up call. If it continues, then he is in contempt of court, and you can haul him back to court. So keep records, and talk to your lawyer or find one that will help you out.

Remember to keep the tension and disagreements out of earshot and sightlines of the little ones. They are not bargaining chips, and they should never feel that they are. As they get older allow them to voice their own wishes and listen with an open heart. Stay on the high road, and Yes! teach them the golden rule, and live by it as well as you can.                         - Jane

My wife is a power hungry, overbearing woman who has controlled me since we got married.  I think she married me for arm candy.  Even when I stand up to her she has dismissed my views and gone with her directions.  From housing to kids, we don't see the same page.

I've met another woman who shows, by actions, the love and relationship skills that I am desperately looking for.

How do I get out of my current situation with my head held high?  If my current woman friend isn't in my future at least I know there is better out there.  Help, I feel as though I keep getting pulled back into the abyss of my current wife.  What can I do?                  - Tsunami
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Dear Tsunami -

I'm sorry I had to change the title of your letter, but "URGH!" just didn't work for me. I wish that my ex had been as thoughtful in deciding to end our marriage... you'll learn after a little while with our Forum, that not all spouses think before they act. I'm glad you're taking the time to ask advice, whether you follow it or not, you're at least considering the process before you jump into it.

I'm probably a little like your wife, not so much in wanting power or arm candy, but just being on a different plane of reality from my ex-spouse. It sounds like your disconnect runs pretty deep - down to your core values. That's a fundamental that will not change even with years of counseling... So, if you are sure that a divorce is what you want and need, then follow the advice you find on this site. Be careful, do not work yourself up into a state of hysteria worrying about her reaction, or just working up your nerve. Be prepared and stay calm.

Look at our Priorities Checklist, figure out your financial situation, list all of your marital assets. Have this in your back pocket when you can sit down like mature adults. Let her know your thought process, and be direct and honest without getting too emotional. Do not talk about another woman... there are millions of single women waiting to meet you and unless you have already cheated, there is nothing to talk about there. Talk about mediation, set it up to happen ASAP. Mediation is the cheapest and easiest solution as long as you both approach it knowing that you will both end up compromising on something. Keep your lines of communication at all times.

If she wants to control the situation, then she will probably go get a lawyer - you should do the same. See our section on Legal Stuff and Lawyers, as well as the Forum... there's a lot to consider.

Divorce is an ugly and traumatic process. Do everything you can to keep it civilized from the beginning. That means no secrets or lies, no hiding assets, badmouthing each other, etc. Most importantly - do not start dating the second you agree to be separated and heading for a divorce. Until you are divorced, you are married. That's how we feel about it, and thinking any other way will not make your life easier.

Last bits of advice: The grass is always greener... you may have met someone, but do not jump into the next relationship too quickly. You have to get through a divorce, then you have to get over the divorce... it's not like changing your shoes. Try some counseling alone, and figure out why you married this person in the first place. Date, have fun, find yourself, then try again.

Wishing you the best of luck!                                          - Jane

I have left my lousy twice and we've only been married 3 years. He has been both a cheat and a liar through most of our relationship. This last time I left ( 1 yr. ago ) he begged, pleaded, and drove my family and friends crazy with the constant calls wanting them to contact me to work things out. I refused to answer any calls from him so he finally caught me at a coffee shop and convinced me to go to counseling with him with the Pastor of our church.  I went, Pastor point blank asked him if he committed adultery and his said 'absolutely not'.

Do I believe this? No.

I found 2 other women's number on his phone, when I called them from his phone they hung up on me.

After I left, he paraded this woman around to all the places we use to go and our friends frequent. I happen to be there one evening, I pretty much laughed in his face and walked away.  Stupid me let him and the Pastor convince me to try to save the marriage.

It's very difficult for me to forget , I have caught him in several lies since the counseling, he is withholding intimacy, companionship, love, conversation, the basic's of marriage. He let his insurance policy lapse saying he couldn't afford it but kept the policy on me. He led me to believe he had a wedding ring in layaway and that has turned out to be false. He also had a DUI while we were separated which has just come to light by my insurance agent. He has had a few in the past years also which I have recently found out about. He bought a house and I live in it in one city while he is in another during the week with his job. I had a home before we were married, did ballroom dancing and had a large circle of family & friends, I feel as though I have lost their respect now.

I am depressed, lonely, generally not feeling well and gaining weight. Something needs to change.  I am alone all week and my children are grown and on their own. On the weekends when he's home he is very distant and usually has something he needs to do so spends time away then too. I have a gut feeling something is not right. Please advise me on where to go with this out of touch louse I married.    - Gloria

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Dear Gloria-

You said it - something needs to change. I often repeat "knowing it is half the battle". In this case you know what's wrong, so now you need to figure out what will work for you. Is it time for you to move on? or is it time to repair? Maybe counseling is the thing to try again, but with someone who will be truly neutral. It sounds as if your husband had good intentions, but there are still too many issues to get past to jump to any conclusions. A good counselor will encourage you both to be honest and help you work together no matter which way it goes.

Take care of yourself - reach out to those old friends, make new ones. Don't worry about what people think about your relationship, because it's yours. Figure out what you want the rest of your life to look like and when that comes into focus then you'll be able to see if it includes your husband or not.

It's going to be hard work either way. Good luck.                     - Jane

I wish I knew about this website a year ago!  

I read looking for an attorney and boy does he fit the bill!  I went to mediate a mess...cried through the whole thing.  My ex-husband played on my emotions.  He was mentally abusive through out our marriage.  My attorney just sat there and did not give me any help.  So, a year later, I am so much better but realize how I screwed my children because I was not prepared mentally to deal with everything.  I signed off on mediation for minimal child support.  I had hoped that I would get help from their dad when our children needed help.  Of course, he provides none at all.  He response to their questions is that it is not the child support agreement.  This is a man that makes over $500K a year not including his bonus ($500+). He pays me $1,875 a month for both.  I realized now that this is not enough for our children. They have to suffer because I don't have enough money to pay for all the things they used to do. I was married for 19 years and he kept the finances from me.  

Is there anyway for me to go back and adjust their child support.  I was told from my attorney that there was not.  Once mediation is signed that is it....I had no idea at the time that this is what it meant. Please help...I have no one to turn to...                                  - JB
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Dear JB -

First of all, we agree - you had a really sorry attorney. You've asked a question that we hear a lot. We aren't lawyers, so we've asked around and this is what I've got for you and anyone else in your situation: There is always a way in court to go back and amend agreements that are already in place from a court order.

Look into what is called a Post-Divorce Decree in most states.  We're not sure if you can get any more alimony as these decrees usually involve child custody issues (like child support/visitation/health insurance for children).  You may have to file the motion against your ex-husband. Often the cases are heard by the same judge that heard the original divorce decree since he/she is familiar with the case.  These hearings can take some time as they are usually not considered urgent unless they involve physical abuse.

Start with a new attorney to file the decree, and find one that has experience in this type of case - really do your homework and find one that fits.  If that's not the route, put your attorney to work for you and your kids. Remember to not make any consultation appointments until you are organized and prepared - use the worksheets so you can clearly see where your money goes and how much you really need. Good luck!              - Jane

My daughter and her same sex partner have a commitment, own a home together and have twin daughters. My daughter carried the babies and she used her partner's eggs and a sperm donor. After the children were born her partner legally adopted the twins and took our family name. They have been together for ten years and the twins will be turning four.  Is there someone she can turn to? This is all new and I don't have any advice for her.  

They live in New York State and are still together, but are about to separate.  I don't know how to advise her on what will happen to their home, or support of the children.  They own the home together and both work.  Are there lawyers who will advise her?  She does not want the separation, but her partner wants to move on.  Her partner travels a great deal and my daughter is the main caregiver, although her partner is definitely involved.  They both love their daughters very much.  What to do legally or emotionally?  Please help a mother who wants to help and support her daughter.

- Mom's Mom

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Dear MM -

Same sex couples have many of the same problems as other couples, but there are also some less predictable legal issues. I think that the rules will vary state to state. Your daughter should seek out a lawyer with experience in same sex family issues. I would start with a local family law practices and do not settle for anyone that does not have this kind of experience. There are also publications in many areas that focus on the LGBT community that will likely have advertisers with specialized experience. Other than that, all of the same rules apply.

Check our Forum for advice about finding lawyers - our readers have some good ideas. You can even start a Forum thread to cull more advice about specifics that may come up. Also assist your daughter in organizing the details of her life - start with our Priorities Checklist. Do as much as you can on your own, together so that you can go into the divorce process prepared. As a Mom, your main job is to support your daughter in any way you can - listen without judging, advise without pressuring, loving without limits. Good luck to both of you.                       - Jane

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Dear Linda:

The only advice I can think of is to focus on you and what you want and need. You cannot change another person's heart, but you can shape your relationship and how it changes.

I believe that some men want a divorce just to feel as though they have control over you and/ or your relationship. It's not necessarily a malevolent desire.... just wanting control. Really press for counseling and frame it with the option for him to select the counselor, or to switch if you don't hit the right one on the first round. Again - offering him some control may make it easier for him to cooperate. Counseling might not change the destiny of your marriage, but it should help you both go the cooperative route for financial and emotional reasons. We have lots of advice on this site about these issues.

Do not compromise yourself to try to win him back - protect yourself and your interests first, that's too much to lose to a quitter.      - Jane