He'll allow his family members and friends to take advantage of him, not pay him for work he does, take the responsibility of others on himself, then wonder why he's broke, bankrupt and can't meet his own needs. He appears helpful, concerned and attentive on the outside, but what's he's really trying to do is control you.
If he can monitor and manipulate your emotions and actions, then he won't have to deal with any of his own feelings. He is in a constant state of denial, fantasy and self-centeredness -- he can't and won't accept help, even when his life is falling apart around him. – Overly Dependable
Dear Dependable:
I’m not so sure that this is a true Lousy category worthy of inclusion in our Field Guide to Lousys. I think you have a combination Crybaby/Loafer. I think this manipulative streak is a sign of insecurity. It’s insecurity that creates the control issues.
By keeping busy taking care of everyone else, then he’s got the perfect excuse not to get his act together. Enabling is what’s going on if you allow this to continue. I suggest you seek counseling together and help him get past his insecurities. No need to discuss who needs him and why he’s broke. He needs to hear from you that you see him as valuable and worthy of his own focus. I hope you can work it out. - Jane
]]>I am dating a guy who I have no idea what he does for a job and even wonder if he is an alcoholic...He claims to be a big IT man but I have not seen him work one day and he lives in a small apartment and never has money to spend on our dates. I end up paying for everything....he is kind of on crazy side and speaks of different languages for fun and listens to music loud, He has a daughter and she is very cute, I just wonder what and where he gets his money from. I dont want to make another mistake. He claims to have friends and then they turn out to be just days old friends.....he is very smart and was married 2 times already. Not sure what to do,,,,,any thoughts..I adore him but am afraid he has dark secrets he is not telling me... - dating a guy i cant understand
Dear Dating -
You've raised some important flags. One of the best ways to judge a person is by the friends they keep. No long term friends says no long term stability, or many burned bridges. It's hard to judge a person by their home these days - living with my mother, myself. It's very probable that he's not employed at all if he has no money. Big IT guys are a dime a dozen these days, and they're not so in demand as they were 10 years ago. It sounds to me like this guy is not being completely honest with you. My recommendation is to enjoy his company, but don't let him impose on your life.
Do NOT let him move in, do NOT loan him money for any reason, and don't push him for answers. If he starts making moves to get closer without giving you more information, then shut the door and don't re-open it. It sounds like he might not have a big dark secret but probably more like a downturn that he's not comfortable with. If he's not secure enough to share the truth, then he's not secure in the relationship. That doesn't make him a bad person, but you should remain cautious. Good luck. - Jane
]]>I have a lawyer and at first my lawyer said we court order for temporary possession of house and child support for four kids. Now my lawyer contacted my husband and said he needs to talk to his lawyer when at the same time my husband did not have one until he found out what he was up for the next court date.
My first court date i was unable to go because of work. Meanwhile my lawyer scheduled another court date and I had a lawyer student email and chat with my lawyer thinking that was me on the other end. Finally my lawyer ask for my husband's number. I feel so confuse between my lawyer who is a male and has a kinda tough bad loud attitude. For example, don't you remember we talk about this last week loud tone voice and its been 7 weeks and he did not even ask for a copy of my husband 90,000 and my 10,000 joint income tax until i offer it to him. Also did not explain how to fill out an affidivait.
- Liz
Dear Liz:
It sounds like you're lawyer is not paying attention. I've had this very same problem and it's up to you to get on top of this situation. I felt at times during my divorce that I was driving and my lawyer was just there to navigate. That's the kind of relationship we set up in the beginning though.
If you're not comfortable with your lawyer, then ask to work with a female associate in his firm or just fire him altogether and start over. Read through this site and find tips on finding a lawyer. Also read through the legal section to understand what your going to end up with - the final divorce decree and parenting plan.
The work/court date thing is going to be a problem for you if you have no flexibility. Make sure whoever you are working with knows your schedule and respects it. You also need to talk to your boss and let them know what you are going through, that you will not let it interfere with your work, and that you may need a small amount of flexibility a couple of times before it's all over.
The financial affadavit is your statement of all your expenses... that means EVERYthing, especially those costs associated with raising your kids. Not just daycare, but gifts for birthday parties, the cost of their birthday parties... Everything. Go through your checkbook and online statements to make sure you capture anything you may or may not have thought of. This is really important in determining yours and your childrens support.
Let us know how you do. - Jane
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Now I've observed some things that bear lessons for all. So here's the moral of the story: no matter how badly your lousy has behaved, you may never, ever allow yourself to assume a superior position. In other words - do not assume self-righteous indignation when you do not approve of Lousy's behavior, it can make you look like the asshole.
We all want the upper hand, and Lousy is going to belittle you, harass you and needle you so that Lousy may be the victim. Yeah, it can work. We've said it before, divorce sucks badly, but it's even worse when there are kids involved. If Lousy's behavior is clearly lousy, there are things you can do quickly to blur that line between you're right and they're wrong.
Many of our forum threads have focused on lousy behavior. That behavior will continue, I guarantee it, well after the divorce is final. So don't act surprised. One of the recurring topics has been mixing up the adultering pigs with the kids. It happens all the time. So your lousy ex brought her boyfriend to your son's soccer game? It's her weekend… What are you doing there? You are the interloper regardless of your habit of attending every game. So don't bitch about it, and don't make a scene.
Another biggie has been the sleepovers. Yeah, that's bad taste, poor judgment and shows how little class your lousy has. Unless it's in a legally binding document that sleepovers are forbidden, then you have to live with it. Your little ones have the right to be with both parents whether they are shacking up or not. If you don't like it, then deal with it like a grown up. Do not puff yourself up and screech about how Lousy is such a bad parent. Bad parents don't spend time with their kids, so you've already lost that argument.
Even without kids, Lousy may still have hooks in your life that will be used to rattle you ad infinitum. Lousy's reputation may have suffered the early effects of bad behavior, but the more that they can get you to complain about them, the crazier you look. Bottom line: let Lousy be lousy, and you need to stay above it all. You may think you have nothing to lose after the final paperwork is done, but your reputation is the key to your success.
]]>Dear Sleepless:
Thank you for writing! You are bringing up a great subject that I've been writing about in the forum, and on our Family page... how do we move on smoothly with kids in tow?
About your taste in men... love the Lousys, do you? You sound like you are in a rut there. If you're finding men that fit in the same category as the man you divorced, then I recommend stepping back and really doing some serious consideration of what you want and what you need. Maybe Lousy was the perfect guy for you - before you had kids. Are you still the same person? Do you have the same goals, values and experiences you had then? Don't lower your expectations, but make sure that they match what you really need in your life now and going forward. Oprah's had a lot to say on this subject, and I'm sure there are many books... check one or two out and get out of that rut!
As for introducing your kids... wait. Mom can go out with a friend without creating any undue anxiety or excitement in their lives. Kids don't understand the dynamics of adult dating and relationships, and they don't need to be part of it. Wait until you are getting 'serious' about a guy before he's presented to them. He should know all about them on your first date, but they don't need to be involved in your dating life at all.
Keep prevailin'! and get some sleep. - Jane
]]>My divorce from Lousy is almost final. I am starting to feel settled, but to be honest, I just miss having a best friend. I am on my own with my children, and am just missing having someone to do stuff with and to talk to.
I have this friend that I have known for a while, and he has told me that he will be divorced by the end of the summer and that his wife (she lives in an apartment) is crazy, and is not allowed to be with his kids on her own. He told me she is a nut job blah blah blah. He is totally making the moves on me. The other part is, that I have seen his wife around - and she is adorable - sweet, pretty, and to me looks like a great mom. What should I do? Am I just getting sweet talked? I don't want to be the other woman. - Holly Go Lightly
Dear Holly -
You say a lot in those two short paragraphs, and you won't like all of my response. First, you're still married, even if your divorce is "almost final". So the same goes for your friend... he's married. Separation is a phase of marriage - still married. Calling his ex-wife "crazy" is dismissive, which can be a little lousy. The fact that he is making the moves on you, while dismissing his ex as "the one with the problem" sends up a big red flag to me. Does it not to you?
Don't let loneliness cancel out common sense. You start fooling around with a married man, then you are the other woman. That will make him lousy and you'll be just as lousy. If you're lonely, then find new outlets to meet people. We offer suggestions in the Moving On section... find something that works for you and your family that you can be proud of.
Hitching your cart to a rebound lousy will just get you a ride around the barn, and back where you started. Sorry, that sounded a little Dr. Phil... but you get it, right? Good luck. - Jane
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In 2006 I was diagnosed with MS (which my lousy never accepted) and he turned 50 (major mid-life crisis). We are both only children and still have our parents. We have 2 adult children ages 23 and 26.
He has destroyed our entire family. More or less, lousy decided he wasn't happy. I have been trying to make marriage work but he would not make an effort. After he moved out, husband of the woman he has been cheating with contacted me with proof of adultery. He had been cheating on me for at least 4 months while I was trying to make things work.
I have no college education and have not worked. We mutually decided years ago that I would stay home and raise the children. Now, because of the disability, I am unable to work full time. We live in MD. I met with a financial planner who told me that if everything is split 50/50 I will not be able to make it. So worried about what my future holds-I am only 49 so I hope I have a lot of years left. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Jean
Dear Jean:
This aspect is the most visible effect of divorce on our lives. I'm glad to hear you've spoken to a financial planner. Have you spoken to a lawyer? You need to find a lawyer who has experience in representing people with special circumstances such as yours, or at least has some idea of how it will affect your life. The fact that Lousy cheated may help your case - so find a good lawyer.
You need to look at your finances again, and decide how much exactly you will need. Use our financial worksheet to figure that out realistically.The trick is not just knowing what you need now, but how your needs will change in the future, and that may take some research. If you've been relying on Lousy, has he provided the family health insurance? How will that change?
I don't want to scare you, but there are many scenarios that you need to consider. Perhaps downsizing now will allow you to stretch your 50 further. It's not fair to have to compromise your lifestyle after supporting a Lousy in his career for so many years, but you do have a lot of years left and you have to take care of yourself.
Find a good lawyer, and develop a strategy as soon as possible. Do your homework before you meet so you know what you need, what questions to ask and leave with a solid plan. Find out the laws in MD. In VA you can collect spousal support for only a limited time. Read through our articles about finding a lawyer, and all the other legal stuff. Being the 'breadwinner' may make Lousy a little cocky and if you are well prepared you may have an advantage. Don't talk about it with your Lousy - don't show your hand. The more you can surprise him with later the better position you'll be in. Believe me, it's hard not to scream at him and let him know all that you know, but please try to play it cool.
Take the lead in this divorce. You do have many more years, and they can be happy and productive as long as you take care of you. Good luck! - Jane
]]>I feel like I am battling both my husband AND my lawyer. How do I know when it's time to find another lawyer and if I do so do I automatically lose my retainer?
My lawyer seems to be making a lot of mistakes. A few weeks ago we spent hours drafting interrogatories for the woman my husband is having his affair with. She told me she'd forward me the final drafts before they went out, but I never got them. She didn't answer any of my emails about it for a week (but did about other topics), then wrote to me and said they had been sent out several days before. Yesterday, on a Sunday, she sent me a text saying that we couldn't serve interrogatories to the mistress because she's not a party in the case AND that the ones we sent out came back because her secretary didn't put enough postage on them. My guess is she never sent them out at all.
Shouldn't she have known from the beginning that we couldn't serve them on the girlfriend? Why did she draft them and go through the whole process if we can't send them? When I asked her that she said we were being "impulsive". Isn't a lawyer supposed to know better than to be impulsive??
She told me from the start that deposing the girlfriend was a waste of money. Now she says it's our only option.
I'm feeling pretty confused and upset! Should I switch lawyers? Mediation is scheduled for next week so I need to move fast. I emailed her and said we needed to have a discussion about the future of my case today but she wrote back and said she's in court all day and can't talk.
Please help! - Heather
Dear Heather:
I have my own opinions of scatter-brained people. When you're going through this kind of crap you are hiring someone to keep things in order and get them taken care of. So my immediate reaction was 'kick her to the curb!'.
But you know how I am... so, I asked a professional lawyer, Karen. Karen is a long time reader and has even connected with another lousyspouse survivor in the DC area to help her get months of overdue support paid by her ex-lousy! So here's her professional (out-of-state) opinion:
So there you have it. There is lots of good information here about selecting an attorney, and what to look for. Definitely postpone the mediation until you find the right one for you. With all professionals you get what you pay for, but then again, many people can graduate with a degree and be in the bottom of their class. Ask for referrals. My experience was that I was very happy with my choice - I chose to pay the high hourly rate guy who didn't insist on a huge retainer. Good Luck!!! - Jane
So here is my problem....I can't relax. I hardly ever sleep, and when I do, it is that half sleep that you have when you have a newborn baby in the house. My kids come home from lousy (during their rare time with him) all keyed up, so I have to help them fall asleep. I get up really early to go to work so that I can come home early and take them to all their extra curriculars. How can I delegate more tasks and learn to relax? I feel okay now, but I just feel like I am always talking about and thinking about my kids (of course they are the main thing on my mind.) I feel sort of self-conscious when on a date or with friends since that is all I seem to talk about. Will I ever be interesting, and well rested again? Being a single mom was not exactly in my "birth plan." Thanks Lousy....
- Juggling it all....and afraid to drop the ball
Dear Juggler -
I'm not sure if that feeling will ever end. So many women want to take care of it all, and with years of success and fullfilment behind us it's hard to accept that single parenthood is changing everything. It sounds to me like your priorities are straight. Kids, work, household - in that order. Oh yeah, there's another factor in that equation - YOU.
You are consumed with those responsiblities because you are the only one with any control - kids, job, home. Exercise your control by learning to embrace that magic word that you used - "delegate". It's hard to ask for help when you never needed it before. Lousy is not there to watch the kids, pick up the dry cleaning, do the dishes, drive the carpool. All of those things can be outsourced, and it's up to you to identify a couple of resources that allow you to have more You time while maintaining that control. Remind yourself that you cannot do everything, and it's okay to ask for help.
Get organized and stay organized with simple routines that will not only you help you manage your time, but also add a sense of security for the kids. Maybe a simple routine can be a walk after supper - calm them down, allow you to relax, and maybe you'll all sleep better. Delegate what you can, when you can - I recently hired a neighbor kid to walk my dog a couple of afternoons a week before I get home, and it was a tremendous relief to my conscience at very little cost.
Your life is so much more than kids, work and home, so don't let it consume you. Being on top of things will not only help you relax, but will give you more confidence - and more to talk about.
Take care of you, and good luck! - Jane
]]>Lousy moved out in November after 22 years of marriage. Our only child was off to college and I had had enough. Now, I have slowly come to the realization that I was married to a sociopath.
He led secret life for the past 18 months, life as I knew it has turned upside-down. Most of this came to the surface, due to his lack of full-time employment, self-esteem went out the window and everything was my fault. Any-hoo, I have not taken any legal action, because Lousy does not have a job. He has had a few in the past making-six figures, (he has a Masters Degree) but he usually sabatoges it. He does "consulting" in the meantime. And he survives by manipulation and charm and has moved on to his next female victim.
Meanwhile, I'm working to provide for my son & myself and barely getting by. I would like to move on and file for divorce, but my concern is that without him having a "real" job, do I stand a chance of getting any child support.? The jurisdiction where I live requires support for my child until age 21, he just turned 19. Will the court consider Lousy's earning potential? Could he ask for spousal support? OMG!!! - Very Angry
Dear Very Angry:
I'd be pissed too. First, you have to get a good lawyer. The short answer about child support is "yes". It will depend on the local laws, but your lawyer can show income potential, or imputed income, as a basis. There are formulas for determining the amount of support based not only on his current income, but your expenses and income as well. Many Lousys will quit their jobs when the divorce process kicks into gear and try to just shrug and say "sorry, I don't have a job... can't pay". That does not fly.
This is the time to get busy getting organized. Use our worksheets to figure out exactly where you are financially before you go to see a lawyer. You also need to account for all the marital assets. Even if it's just a couple of cars and a slim margin of equity, it all adds up to something. Also get a handle on the debts... you can make him take responsibility for crazy debts that he created, but you have to know what they are and where they are. Including that liablility in your divorce settlement may not clear your name, but if he tries to screw around and not take care of it you can haul him back to court for contempt.
As for the spousal support... don't know about that one. If you can show proof of adultery, then - no way. If he's just a screw up who has relied on you for years for support, then you may be in for it. If he does have a basis for spousal support, then that may reduce your child support potential. I suggest you become the encouraging and supportive spouse that boosts his ego into another good paying position before you hit him with the big D. (Yeah, that's bitchy, but it's all about self-preservation).
Bottom line is: nobody will come out unscathed. Wherever you are in your current lifestyle, expect a downgrade for everyone. Don't start the process until you get your ducks in a row... seeing a lawyer before you are prepared is a waste of money. See this site for other tips, like what to look for in a lawyer, etc.
Good luck!!! - Jane
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